Tuesday, July 18, 2006
More About Baptism
I had a question on an earlier thread by Baptistkathy. Kathy, I don’t want you to think I was avoiding you….. I’ve just been kinda tied up. You know, I do have friends who have left Henderson Hills because of what they say is liberal theology. If you’ve gone to Henderson Hills very long, you probably have friends who have left there too. Maybe you should talk to them to find out why?
How many years ago was it that Henderson Hills was contemplating a merger with the non-denominational “Metro Church”? My boss at the time was going to Henderson Hills during that period. Actually, I think he still goes there. He was one that was totally in favor of the merger at that time. Of course, he hadn’t been a Baptist or a Christian for very long either. But he’s a finance guy, and it seemed to make sense to him.
But regarding Baptism…… Kathy, you’ve told me that your mind isn’t made up. You’ve said that you are praying about your decision. That’s a good thing. You know, I’ve read the Henderson Hills documents. I’ve watched Dennis over the internet. I did each of those before I ever commented on the issue. I’ve said all along that he is very persuasive. And he is. But, I don’t believe the documents they have prepared are based on a study of Baptism. I believe their work is insufficient and incomplete. And most of all, I believe it is built on rationalization. I honestly believe there was first a goal and then a set of rationalizations to justify it.
A person in my Sunday school class this past Sunday put it this way “they went out of their way to wrongfully interpret the Greek, and misrepresent the Acts 2 account of adding 3000 to the church”.
I know you don’t accept that, and I commend you for supporting your pastor.
But, before you vote, I would ask that you do a bibegateway.com search on “Baptize” and all of the variations of the term. I would ask that you read everything the bible has to say about Baptism. The entire text regarding Baptism. You'll read each of the times we are commanded to repent and be baptized. You'll read in all 4 gospels about Christ being baptized.
You'll read repeatedly about the difference between John's baptism and Baptism unto Jesus. And you'll read about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
You'll read about Paul re-baptizing Christians in the church of Ephesus who hadn't been baptized properly. You'll read about even the tax collectors turning out to be baptized by John. You'll read about 3000 being saved and baptized on the same day.
You'll read about some being saved, baptized, but not receiving the Holy Spirit until the apostles laid hands on them. You'll read about Simon the sorcerer believing, being baptized, and then wanting to purchase from the apostles their “gifts”.
You'll read that Jesus didn't baptize anyone, but that his disciples did. You'll read about his command to the church to BAPTIZE those who believe.
You'll read about Pricilla and Aquilla telling the preacher Apollos that he needs to be baptized correctly in the name of Jesus.
You’ll read about people who were saved and filled with the spirit before they were ever baptized. You’ll read about the jailor who was baptized immediately after believing. You’ll read that Paul baptized very few in Corinth, and that someone else was doing the baptizing there.
You’ll read that even then there were people who were being baptized for the dead, like the Mormons do now.
You’ll read that in the old testament they were all baptized into Moses….. and now we’re all baptized into one Spirit.
And I’ve not named all that you can read. But what you won’t find is members of the church that weren’t baptized. You won’t find Paul or anybody else saying…. Gee…. they don’t want to be baptized…. so let’s not insist on it. You won’t find Paul or anybody else saying….. well they were baptized unto John and immersed….. so that’s good enough because really Baptism is just picture anyway. And you won’t find anybody saying…. what right have we to deny membership of those who won’t accept believer’s baptism. You gotta read HH documents to read that.
So yeah… if you’re really as open minded and praying for God’s direction before you vote….. then I challenge you to read all of the text in its entirety concerning Baptism….. and then pray about understanding it. And I believe that if you’re honest with yourself, and really want to question the Baptist doctrine regarding Baptism….. that you might decide that we don’t take it seriously enough, and place as much importance on it, and do it as timely…… as we should. I don’t think you’ll decide that it isn’t necessary for church membership, unless that’s just something you want to do.
Henderson Hills leadership has stated that they believe changing the by-laws will restore the true importance of baptism. That they will be elevating it. Does that really make sense to you? The idea that we’re going to tell people that they don’t necessarily HAVE to get baptized if they don’t want to. That it’s up to them…. And by doing that we’re increasing the importance of baptism? This isn’t even sound logic, much less scriptural.
So that’s where I stand on it. I’m sorry if I am to passionate about it. I apologize if I have offended you in any way. But, I believe we are talking about something that is very important.
Best wishes.
How many years ago was it that Henderson Hills was contemplating a merger with the non-denominational “Metro Church”? My boss at the time was going to Henderson Hills during that period. Actually, I think he still goes there. He was one that was totally in favor of the merger at that time. Of course, he hadn’t been a Baptist or a Christian for very long either. But he’s a finance guy, and it seemed to make sense to him.
But regarding Baptism…… Kathy, you’ve told me that your mind isn’t made up. You’ve said that you are praying about your decision. That’s a good thing. You know, I’ve read the Henderson Hills documents. I’ve watched Dennis over the internet. I did each of those before I ever commented on the issue. I’ve said all along that he is very persuasive. And he is. But, I don’t believe the documents they have prepared are based on a study of Baptism. I believe their work is insufficient and incomplete. And most of all, I believe it is built on rationalization. I honestly believe there was first a goal and then a set of rationalizations to justify it.
A person in my Sunday school class this past Sunday put it this way “they went out of their way to wrongfully interpret the Greek, and misrepresent the Acts 2 account of adding 3000 to the church”.
I know you don’t accept that, and I commend you for supporting your pastor.
But, before you vote, I would ask that you do a bibegateway.com search on “Baptize” and all of the variations of the term. I would ask that you read everything the bible has to say about Baptism. The entire text regarding Baptism. You'll read each of the times we are commanded to repent and be baptized. You'll read in all 4 gospels about Christ being baptized.
You'll read repeatedly about the difference between John's baptism and Baptism unto Jesus. And you'll read about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
You'll read about Paul re-baptizing Christians in the church of Ephesus who hadn't been baptized properly. You'll read about even the tax collectors turning out to be baptized by John. You'll read about 3000 being saved and baptized on the same day.
You'll read about some being saved, baptized, but not receiving the Holy Spirit until the apostles laid hands on them. You'll read about Simon the sorcerer believing, being baptized, and then wanting to purchase from the apostles their “gifts”.
You'll read that Jesus didn't baptize anyone, but that his disciples did. You'll read about his command to the church to BAPTIZE those who believe.
You'll read about Pricilla and Aquilla telling the preacher Apollos that he needs to be baptized correctly in the name of Jesus.
You’ll read about people who were saved and filled with the spirit before they were ever baptized. You’ll read about the jailor who was baptized immediately after believing. You’ll read that Paul baptized very few in Corinth, and that someone else was doing the baptizing there.
You’ll read that even then there were people who were being baptized for the dead, like the Mormons do now.
You’ll read that in the old testament they were all baptized into Moses….. and now we’re all baptized into one Spirit.
And I’ve not named all that you can read. But what you won’t find is members of the church that weren’t baptized. You won’t find Paul or anybody else saying…. Gee…. they don’t want to be baptized…. so let’s not insist on it. You won’t find Paul or anybody else saying….. well they were baptized unto John and immersed….. so that’s good enough because really Baptism is just picture anyway. And you won’t find anybody saying…. what right have we to deny membership of those who won’t accept believer’s baptism. You gotta read HH documents to read that.
So yeah… if you’re really as open minded and praying for God’s direction before you vote….. then I challenge you to read all of the text in its entirety concerning Baptism….. and then pray about understanding it. And I believe that if you’re honest with yourself, and really want to question the Baptist doctrine regarding Baptism….. that you might decide that we don’t take it seriously enough, and place as much importance on it, and do it as timely…… as we should. I don’t think you’ll decide that it isn’t necessary for church membership, unless that’s just something you want to do.
Henderson Hills leadership has stated that they believe changing the by-laws will restore the true importance of baptism. That they will be elevating it. Does that really make sense to you? The idea that we’re going to tell people that they don’t necessarily HAVE to get baptized if they don’t want to. That it’s up to them…. And by doing that we’re increasing the importance of baptism? This isn’t even sound logic, much less scriptural.
So that’s where I stand on it. I’m sorry if I am to passionate about it. I apologize if I have offended you in any way. But, I believe we are talking about something that is very important.
Best wishes.
Monday, July 17, 2006
The New CD Is In!
We've got it in hand and started sales. My original goal was to do this 2nd CD at least as well as the first one. We had such success with the first one that I was pretty nervous about this one. It's one thing to do a CD as best you can....... and a completely different thing to do one "as good as the last one". Well the good news is that the feedback we're getting from people who didn't play on the CD..... and who aren't related to any of us.......is that this CD is BETTER than the first one! So that just makes us happy. I mean that's the way it's suppose to work.
Ayway..... for anybody that wants a copy of the new one...... it is $10. You can email me for arrangements..... or if you want to use a credit card etc..... its avilable through Amazon.com.
Here's the link http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/104-8384381-0917569?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=music-artist&field-artist=Grafted%20In
Ayway..... for anybody that wants a copy of the new one...... it is $10. You can email me for arrangements..... or if you want to use a credit card etc..... its avilable through Amazon.com.
Here's the link http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/104-8384381-0917569?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=music-artist&field-artist=Grafted%20In
